Town of Charlotte
Board of Selectmen
Minutes
Monday, October 27, 2003
7:00 PM, Charlotte Town Hall
Jennifer
Steele Cole
Eleanor
Russell
Francis
Thornton
OTHERS: Dean
Bloch (Select board Assistant)
Stephen
C. Brooks
Peter
Coleman
Kate
Lampton
Ed
LeClair
Dave
Miskell
Nancy
Sabin
Carolyn
Sennhenn
Sylvia
Sprigg
Jocelyn
Bolick (clerk)
The
meeting was called to order at 7:07 pm.
The
items on the agenda were as follows:
Adjustment to Agenda / Approve Minutes for October 13 /
Public Discussion / Preliminary Discussion of $60K Expenditure from
Conservation Fund for Route 7 South (Hinsdale) Project – Kate Lampton / Approve
Burns Planning Process / Recreation Commission Vacancy Discussion / Discussion
of Draft of Fire and Rescue By-Laws (Probable Executive Session) / Discussion
of Town’s Position on VELCO (Probable Executive Session) / Select board
Updates: Budget Process, Liaisons, New State Septic Regulations / Adjournment
Adjustment
to Agenda
Halloween and traffic control. Paul has 4 people from CVFRS as well as
Cowboy Lewis signed up for traffic control at the west village on Halloween
night. They’ll also have the radio with
them.
Trees at Thompson’s Point. Larry Hamilton is concerned about a tree
cutting violation at Thompson’s Point.
Charlie said they are going to meet with Larry and talk about the issue. Stephen Brooks said that Larry hasn’t
written Tom Mansfield a letter; Ellie said that Larry has written a letter to
the select board. Stephen feels it
might be helpful to encourage Larry to make a written recommendation to the
zoning administrator.
Ellie said they would
like to sit down with Larry and talk about it.
Short-term use of the Thorpe Barn next summer. Jennie said that maintenance work (buttoning up) still
needs to be done. Jennie is interested
in looking at a possible short-term use of the Thorpe Barn next summer. She has talked to someone who might be
interested in teaching a timber framing class.
Ted Ingram would be the teacher; he has taught at the Maritime Museum
and the Shelburne Museum, and he knows the Thorpe Barn. The class could be taught outside or
elsewhere on the property.
Stephen asked about
the reason for using the Thorpe Barn.
Jennie said the location, and it’s a good example of timber
framing. It’s a way to get people
interested in these structures.
Peter Coleman asked
if it would be a revenue generator to offset some of the potential costs. Jennie said she wasn’t sure; it would need
to be looked into further. She had
approached Ted initially; she was trying to think of some ways that the
building could be used. Since it’s an
interesting barn and a good example of timber framing, it seemed to be a good
fit. If you want to find a use for the
building, you will need to find a way for people to get in there. It wouldn’t be a huge number of people, and
only for a couple of days.
Ellie said this
sounds a little pre-mature since the barn is not safe right now. There’s the traffic issue and any potential
liability. She would be interested in
seeing more detail in a proposal.
Sylvia Sprigg said Ted Ingram is already familiar with the building; he
was using the Thorpe Barn as a resource while he was at the Shelburne
Museum. Charlie said if this gets
incorporated with fixing up the barn, this would be great. Jennie will continue to check on it, and see
if she can talk with him again about a possible project there.
Approve
Minutes for October 13
Motion made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To approve the select board meeting minutes with
corrections for October 13th ”.
Vote: all in favor.
On
page 3, change “… what was going on, emotions and attendance” to “…what was
going on, motions and attendance”.
On
page 6, change “Their will be significant demand …” to “There will be
significant demand…”.
On
page 8, change “Ellie said they wanted to put it on the agenda” to “Ellie said
they wanted to put the staffing problem on the agenda”.
On
page 8, change “Stephen Bloch” to “Stephen Vock”.
On
page 8, change “… on what they can do with the landfill” to “… on what can be
done with the landfill”. Also, in the same
paragraph, change “Do they need to go to the state” to “Do we need to go to the
state”.
On
page 9, change “Tim Huestis” to “Tim Eustace”.
On
page 9, move the vote on the motion “To
approve the job description for planner/select board assistant” until after
the paragraph with the suggestion by Paul.
On
page 9, change “… the justification for an increase” to “ … the 3% goal”.
·
Stephen Brooks wanted to know the
situation with the hedge on Greenbush Road.
Charlie said it has been planted, but it looks like there is plenty of
room to walk. Peter Coleman said wait
until it grows, there won’t be any room to walk. Stephen wanted to know if the hedge was planted in the public
right-of-way, and if so did the planter have a permit. Charlie said there was no permit issued, and
he surmises it is in the right-of-way.
Stephen wanted to know if it’s a problem; Charlie doesn’t think it’s a
problem.
Stephen asked if it’s
a problem in that it establishes a precedent.
Francis said you don’t get any rights against the town; if the town has
the right of way, then the town has the right of way.
Dean said Charlie
Proutt was on the last agenda, but he didn’t come in to the meeting.
·
Stephen wanted to know if there is a
VELCO meeting scheduled for this week.
Jennie said there was a site visit last Thursday; the meeting this week
is the bus tour that VELCO is doing from Burlington to Rutland, but you had to
reserve a spot last week. There was
going to be a meeting in Shelburne on October 30th where VELCO was
going to answer questions about electromagnetic fields and the project, but it
has been cancelled. It might be
rescheduled.
Stephen asked if this
committee intends to work with related committees from other towns. Jennie said yes, she has already talked with
Shelburne’s committee, and also the Vergennes town manager. The Public Service Board is requiring that
groups consolidate so we might actually be put together with other towns.
At the moment,
however, there is not a meeting scheduled with the other groups.
·
Stephen asked about the letterhead from
the Conservation Commission. Stephen
was concerned with having a private address on the town letterhead. It’s different from the town letterhead that
everyone else uses. The select board does
not have a problem with the letterhead.
·
Stephen asked about the management
consulting contract with Fire and Rescue.
He wanted to know if they have shared the results with the select
board. Ellie said yes – she has it, but
it is up to CVFRS if they want to share it with the public. Charlie said the select board does not have
the right to expose a document without their permission.
·
Stephen wanted to know if the select
board has a written statement of the taxpayer’s rights on Plouffe Farm
Road. Charlie said the board promised
something in writing by the end of the summer, but it is a low priority and
it’s not planned on moving forward at the moment.
·
Stephen wanted to know if CVFRS
provided a copy of the by-laws to the select board. They have but it is not a public document.
·
Stephen asked if there has been a
status change to the Barrows legacy.
Nothing has changed since the last meeting. They don’t expect any money anytime soon.
·
Stephen asked about the Parks and
Recreation Department proposal. Charlie
said Paul was going to present something, so we’re waiting for Paul on that
issue.
·
Stephen asked about the bids for the
fire truck. They are expecting to see
the bids sometime in November.
·
Stephen inquired about the town land
inventory. Any plans to move forward
with that? Yes there are plans to move
forward, but nothing more definitive at this time.
·
Stephen asked about the plan for
developing a policy for use of town building and properties. It’s on the list, nothing more definitive.
·
Stephen asked about the upgrading of
gravel roads. It’s on the list, nothing
more definitive.
·
Stephen asked about the Thompson’s
Point Investment Study. There are no
new elements to add. It’s on the list,
nothing more definitive.
·
Nancy Sabin asked about the Demeter
Property. Charlie said there’s nothing
up there in the way of water and septic.
Even though the farm had milkers, they had a big pond at their disposal. There were also density issues that couldn’t
be solved easily.
Preliminary
Discussion of $60K Expenditure from Conservation Fund for Route 7 South
(Hinsdale) Project – Kate Lampton
South Charlotte Greenbelt project. The Rec Committee and Land Trust have both voted unanimously to
support the application. She wanted to
give an overview to the board before sending Al Karnatz to the November meeting
(Kate will be out of town).
Champlain Valley Greenbelt Alliance has plans to conserve 5
properties on both sides of Route 7 between Higbee Road and State Park
Road. There are roughly 88 acres, and
close to 4000 feet of Route 7 frontage.
It’s rare when that many different properties all come together at
once. Clark Hinsdale III either owns or
has contracts on the 5 properties.
Vermont Housing and Conservation Board will hopefully be one of the major
funders, along with the Champlain Valley Greenbelt Alliance. The Vermont Land Trust will also be funding
a smaller amount. The $60,000 that they
are requesting from the town will also be a major part of the plan, both
monetarily as well as showing the participation of the town to other fund
raisers.
When these 5 properties are conserved, along with other
conserved lands, almost the entire frontage from Higbee to State Park Road will
be conserved. When it’s all done, there
will be roughly one mile conserved on each side of the road. This will reduce curb cuts and development
on Route 7 in an area that is pretty dangerous.
The land owner is amenable to a trail easement. It has been talked about with the Rec
committee in a very preliminary way. One
of the thoughts is to connect with an underpass, go along the east side of a
hedgerow and the west side of the swell, and be extended as the town has the
chance to pick up easements over time.
Charlie had asked Kate earlier about an executory interest
for the town when the town contributes money for a conservation project, and
that is fine. To keep things neat and
clean, the conservation easement will be drafted with a trail easement
separately, so it will be easy to turn it over to the town if the town wants
the easement. The VLT will hold the
easement, but it is being drafted separately as an assignable easement.
There should be no construction except perhaps for farm
buildings, and that would be with the approval of the VLT. At one point, it was thought that there
might be a reserved area for a house site; right now that is not a proposal,
unless they can’t fund raise for the whole thing and they’ll have to figure out
some way to get more money. There may be
an envelope of land where a farm stand can be built. Typically, Kate’s group will hire a landscape architect to make
suggestions. Some of the land is under
contract, some has already been purchased.
Charlie asked about the $60,000 – is it a firm proposal or
not, and when is it needed? Kate said
there is a purchase and sale that has been drafted and specifies everything;
there is no house site. Francis asked
about getting copies of the conservation easements and all appropriate
documentation before handing over the money.
Kate said they are trying to get the money raised by the end of the
year, and they are looking to the town for money by the end of the year. It’s not a single property with one closing;
it’s a little bit different.
Peter Coleman asked if anyone knows the unallocated balance
of the Charlotte Conservation Fund.
Kate said currently the balance is around $127,000, and that is after
DeVos and Knowles. As off November 1st,
another $80,000 goes into the kitty for a total of around $207,000. A question was asked whether it was certain
that a house site is no longer in the picture.
Kate said right now there is no proposal for a house site, but they have
not finished their fundraising. If they
cannot raise the funds, however, they will have to restructure the project.
The total project cost is $418,800. That is acquisition of the conservation
easement plus the project cost (title searches, title insurance, VLT staff
time, stewardship, etc.).
Nancy Sabin was concerned about the 88 acres – how much is
it really if Route 7 (a 6 rod road) is taking up some of that acreage. Kate said that the acreage does not include
the land that is Route 7.
Kate said the purchase price of the easement is
$395,000. The appraised value of the
easement is $662,000. The appraisal was
done by Rodney Hagget. Nancy asked
about the value the town has the property appraised at; Kate didn’t know.
Francis asked what happens in the future when they decide to
sell the property. Kate said they can’t
sell the property; it has a perpetual easement. It is the model used by all the conservation easements in
Vermont. There is a penalty attached if
they do build a structure.
Stephen asked if it’s fair to say the VLT is buying the
development rights, and the VLT could choose to sell the development rights. Kate says that is not how it works. Stephen said according to VLT’s mission,
they won’t sell them BUT they have the right to sell them. Kate said to keep in mind that this is also
a Vermont Housing and Conservation Board funded project which also ties into
the easements with the VLT. This is an
easement that is standard to all the easement projects. There is nothing different in this proposed
easement than the other projects the town is involved with.
Stephen said the easement is not worth anything to anyone
except the person who owns the land – you would need to own the easement rights
as well as the property in order to build.
Nancy wanted to know about putting curb cuts on property
that has frontage both on Route 7 and on a secondary road. Dean said that the priority is to put the
curb cut on the secondary road. Francis
said that you would need to get state approval to put a curb cut on Route 7.
Nancy approves trying to save Route 7 – it’s horrifying
what’s happened in Shelburne and Ferrisburg. But she’s annoyed that the conserved lands are not owned by the
town. Charlie said the town doesn’t own
the land, but it does have an executor’s interest in it. Kate said the VLT is a 501c3
organization. There’s a lot of linkage
in these easements – you can get into trouble with the IRS trying to sell the
easements.
Kate would like feedback from the board since she won’t be
at the next meeting. Francis would like
to look into it further – he wants to make sure the town is protected; the
select board is primarily for the conservation.
Crystal Leer from Lucy Lane said there was a neighborhood
meeting discussing Clark Hinsdale’s purpose for this project. At the meeting, Clark said he might need financial
help from the neighbors; the neighbor’s support the conservation as long as
there is not housing involved. Any
financial support would be purely voluntary and would go towards general funds.
Charlie asked if it is fair to say that, at the next meeting,
Kate would like a commitment that the select board will put up the money. He imagines a motion with conditions. Kate said yes, and it could be a conditional
commitment.
Sylvia Sprigg said there is a curb cut on Route 7 near East
Thompson’s Point Road. It is state and
town approved. The only one that could
extinguish that curb cut is the state.
Dave Miskell said there will be a change to Higbee
Road. It will be moved.
Peter asked the definition of a farm stand. Dean said it is in-flux. A commercial farm stand is allowed to have
products that are not grown on the farm in the farm stand. Another type of farm stand only allows
products that were grown on the land.
Kate said her organization’s goal is scenic preservation;
the town has a full review process. She
has already sent a letter to the planning commission. Her organization’s role is not designing anything related to the
farm stand; its role is to delineate an area where the farm stand could exist.
Approve
Burns Planning Process
This is a process that the Burns Planning Committee
developed and has been approved by the Vermont Land Trust as well as the
Preservation Trust of Vermont. Part of
the process is for the select board to approve the process. VLT requires that the town go through this
process as one of the conditions. The
result of the survey that has been distributed shows little public interest in
anything on that property except for trails.
The VLT has given $5,000 for this process, and the
Preservation Trust has been asked to spend $500.
Motion made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To approve the steering committees proposal for the
planning process for the Burns Property”.
Francis
asked if some of the process has already been completed; it has.
Peter Coleman asked about the Burns Planning Process
document. He wanted to know why a
representative of that committee did not show up to defend the agenda
item. Charlie said he was on that
committee, he was representing it.
Ellie’s happy to see something on paper that defines a plan
of action that gets the ball moving.
Vote: 3 in favor, Francis Thornton abstained.
Recreation
Commission Vacancy Discussion
There is an opening on the Rec commission. No one has formally applied, though Gregg Beldock
has expressed some interest. It was
advertised in the summer, but Ellie feels it needs to be advertised again. Stephen asked about advertising the position
again when someone has expressed interest.
Charlie said there was no formal letter received from Gregg. The board agreed it will be advertised
again.
Discussion
of Draft of Fire and Rescue By-Laws (Probable Executive Session)
Peter Coleman stated he thought executive sessions were only
for negotiations regarding salaries, and buying/selling things, etc. Charlie said they were also for the
discussion of documents that were exempt from public meetings. Stephen asked how this is exempt, and Ellie
said it’s a private document. This will
become a public document when it gets filed with the Secretary of State. CVFRS is a private organization and they
have not given the select board permission to talk about the by-laws in public.
Peter asked if the public is not going to have any input
into the CVFRS by-laws. Ellie said the
select board doesn’t have an input either; it’s only by the good graces of
CVFRS. The select board can just push
for what they would like in there, but it doesn’t have to be approved. Charlie said they checked with legal
counsel, and it is a private organization with private documents. Peter said it doesn’t sound right for the
select board to discuss the by-laws of a private organization in a private
meeting. Something doesn’t sound right. Stephen said once again, CVFRS is going to
control the dialog; they’re going to ask for taxpayer money but not allow
taxpayers any input on how to spend it.
Charlie said you’ve got to trust that the board is going to push for the
same issues that the public would be pushing for.
Stephen said the central matter is how authority is styled
in that organization, and how that authority interfaces with the fiduciary
responsibility that the board has.
There has been a tremendous amount of dysfunction on that side of the
road, and we know that it has come out of the present organizational structure. Does the board support the notion that CVFRS
fashions themselves in the traditional way where there is a board of directors
with some portion of the board being designated by the select board, instead of
every member of CVFRS being a member of the board. Charlie said they will be talking about how much representation
the town has on their board of directors, and they now have something to
discuss.
Ellie said their major concern is that the town has a
fiduciary interest in a big way.
However, they don’t have any way of controlling that without cutting off
the money. The board would prefer to
have some level of trust with CVFRS.
Stephen asked who owns all the stuff over there. Ellie believes CVFRS owns it – they have the
title to it. Stephen asked about the
case where the organization dissolves.
Francis said if a non-profit corporation dissolves, the assets have to
transfer to another non-profit corporation.
Stephen asked how to resolve giving the private corporation
money that it converts to assets that it then owns. Ellie said that the town will own the assets. Charlie said that it was the decision by a
prior select board that the title would be in CVFRS’ name. But the board needs to understand why that
was done originally; maybe it was because of insurance reasons.
Stephen asked what bad things would happen if the board said
to CVFRS that the board is uninterested in keeping everything behind closed
doors. Ellie said CVFRS is willing to
accept the input from the select board, and they would like to give it to
them. Eric gave the by-laws to Ellie
with the condition that they are not made public.
Peter Coleman said he thought that 4 out of the 5 select
board members were elected on the premise that government should be more open
to the public. Stephen said it is a
simple gesture to say thank you, but we’d prefer government to be more open.
Francis said that these by-laws are preliminary, rough, and
need a tremendous amount of work. They
just want the input and suggestions from the select board. The board is not interested in cutting
anyone out of the loop. Ellie said if
they are going to listen to the thoughts of the board, then the board needs to
have a good relationship with CVFRS. If
the by-laws are put out in front of the public now, that won’t be a good
relationship. Stephen said he’s not
suggesting that be done, but they continue to control the dialog. This has been going on for a long time. Ellie said what they don’t want is for
Stephen to control the dialog. Stephen
said this isn’t a negotiation about money, so what’s the big secret? What’s covered and hidden?
Francis asked if you were in the process of revising your
corporate structure, would you want to sit in public and discuss every aspect
of whether or not you should do something.
No! But you might want to get
people that can give you input – and that’s what they have done here, asking
for input from the select board as representatives of the town.
Peter said CVFRS is looking at the select board as the piggy
bank. Francis said yes, they control
the budget. Peter said you give them
the money, not control the money.
Francis said you can control it by changing the budget on town meeting day.
Ellie said you have to trust the board. Stephen said he’s been watching the board
interact with CVFRS for a long time, and they continue to flummox the
board. This conversation has been going
on and on. Ellie asked if you were on
the board, what would you do? Stephen
said to tell them they will not make a budget allotment for CVFRS, make them
stand up at town meeting and tell people why you need money. There have been a lot of great people lost,
and what’s going on with the ambulance license situation. Do people in Charlotte have ambulance
service?
Stephen thanked the board for listening. He feels it would be a good thing for the
board to say thanks, but unless it’s in a public forum, forget about it.
Charlie said it’s time to go into executive session, make
recommendations, and keep our fingers crossed that our recommendations will get
adopted. If they don’t, we’ll be having
this discussion in public.
Motion made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Francis
Thornton:
“To go into executive session to discuss the proposed Fire
and Rescue By-Laws”.
Vote: all in favor.
Motion made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Charles Russell:
“To come out of
executive session”.
Vote: all in favor.
Select board
members will meet with representatives of Fire and Rescue to discuss the
by-laws.
Discussion
of Town’s Position on VELCO (Probable Executive Session)
Jenny said
there was a site visit. They looked at
wetlands in the area where the substation is proposed. Residents of Limerick Acres will want input. Jenny asked Dean whether the substation will
go through a local permitting process.
Dean will look into it.
Jenny said
that the Shelburne committee is doing a market study regarding the impact of
power lines on the market value of properties in the vicinity of the line.
Motion made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Francis
Thornton:
“To go into executive session to discuss the town’s position on the VELCO application to the Public Service Board”.
Vote: all in favor.
Motion made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Francis
Thornton:
“To come out of
executive session”.
Vote: all in favor.
Select
board Updates
·
Budget Process. Ellie and Dean have sent out letters to the
various departments with their section of the budget to be input. The schedule has them getting initial
requests back to the board prior to the next meeting (November 10th). The liaisons on the select board for each
committee should meet with their committees prior to the next meeting.
v
Frank – Senior Center
v
Ellie – Library and Planning/Zoning
v
Charles – Conservation
v
Jennie – Recreation
v
Paul – CVFRS
The road Commissioner
and listers are on their own. They are
pretty straight forward.
·
Liaisons. Covered under Selectboard Updates/Budget Process.
·
New State Septic Regulations. There was a meeting with the chair of the Planning
Commission/Zoning Board, Tom Mansfield, Dean, Charles, Ellie, and Spencer
Harris, the town septic consultant.
They talked about the new state regulations that the town will be forced
to adopt in 2007. They discussed
whether to use septic to control growth.
They talked about co-housing; they cleared up some misunderstanding
about what was actually approved by the planning commission. One of the conditions of the approval was
that they submit a design with flow rates that comply with the 1996 rules. They cannot get a permit to do anything
until they come up with septic plans.
The one precedent
that was set was that the land was subdivided without complete compliance. The planning commission felt that they still
had control because of the condition that was placed on approval.
Peter asked if you
can’t sell the land because of the septic.
Ellie said you can’t build on it; Charlie said he believed it does
restrict their ability to sell also because they can’t get a clear title.
Charlie said it may
not be able to design a system that is compliant under both the 1996 rules and
the 2002 rules. One of the differences
is that the orifices in the pipes have to go up in one case and down in
another. Charlie said Spencer Harris is
checking into whether this is really an issue or not. Ellie said that Spencer said the new rules are still in-flux and
may change the orientation again before 2007.
Because of the uncertainty, the select board did not feel that they
wanted to jump in and adopt rules that may be changing.
Stephen asked if the
board has decided to stay with the rules status quo. He asked if the board is considering adopting the new rules
now. Charlie said no; he said Spencer
felt it was too early to adopt them.
Jennie asked if someone is looking into the impacts of the change. Ellie said the board is still trying to
figure out how to evaluate it themselves.
Ed LeClair said that
Ernie Christiansen doesn’t feel that the rules are in-flux. It was passed in the last legislative
session. Charlie said that some
lawmakers are not happy about it; the effect that it has in Addison County is
pretty significant.
Charlie said they
were looking to get someone to advise the select board on this issue. A suggestion was made to get Ernie
Christiansen.
Stephen asked if it
was fair to say that the board was going to stay the course. Charlie said they were going to study
it. Dean said there is some flexibility
in the 1996 rules in terms of flow rates.
Adjournment
Next meeting: Monday, November 10th at 7 PM.
Motion made by
Francis Thornton, seconded by Ellie Russell:
“To adjourn the select board meeting”.
Vote: all in favor. Meeting adjourned at 11:00 PM.
Minutes
respectfully submitted by Jocelyn Bolick.