Town of Charlotte
Board of Selectmen
Minutes
Monday, September 22, 2003
7:30 PM, Charlotte Town Hall
Jennifer Steele Cole
Eleanor Russell
Francis Thornton
OTHERS: Stephen
C. Brooks
Holly
Callery
Dana
Farley
John
Hammer
Allan
Jordan
Robert
Mack
Edd
Merritt
John
Owen
Chip
Patullo
John
Quinney
Debbie
Ramsdell
Peter
Richardson
Larilee
Suiter
Jocelyn
Bolick (clerk)
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 pm.
The items on the agenda were as follows:
Call to Order / Adjustments
to Agenda / Approve Minutes for August 25, September 15 / Public Discussion / Varney
Farm Update / Decision to Hire Selectboard Assistant / Authorize bills and
warrants / Adjournment
Adjustments to Agenda
Motion
made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To approve the job description for the Senior Center Coordinator”.
Vote: all in favor.
Stephen
Brooks asked what is equivalent to a 4-year degree. Ellie said that it is standard substitution of 2 years of
pertinent experience for one year of college.
Motion
made by Ellie Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“Move to appoint Frank Thornton as the selectboard representative on the board for the Senior Center”.
Vote: all in favor.
Stephen
Brooks said the name of the corporation is the Friends of the Walter Irish
Senior Center, Inc. Debbie Ramsdell
said the meetings are the first Thursday of the month.
Motion
made by Frank Thornton, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“Move to appoint Ellie Russell as
the selectboard representative for the Library”.
Vote: all in favor.
Stephen
asked if it was strictly a liaison position, it’s not filling a trustee seat,
right? That’s correct.
A
contract has been received to rent the Senior Center. This item will be placed on a future
agenda. Stephen Brooks asked why the
select board is dealing with this – he feels the board’s agent should be
dealing with the contract, not the select board. The select board already pushes around enough paper!
Motion
made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“It is the sentiment of the board that the cure period should be
extended”.
Vote: all in favor.
Approve Minutes for August 25, September 15
Motion made by
Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To approve
the selectboard meeting minutes with corrections for August 25th ”.
Vote: 3 in
favor. Francis Thornton abstained (was
not a member of the selectboard on August 25th).
On page 2, change (before heading of VELCO) “… as long
as there is an operating pertinence to the Old Lantern” to “… as long as it is pertinent to the Old Lantern”
On page 3, change Forth Brook to Thorpe Brook.
On page 4, add that P. Arthaud and D. Ramsdell abstained
from the motion.
On page 7, correct (on the move to appoint Francis Thornton
as a fill in) vote from 4 members in favor to 3 members in favor, since Debbie
Ramsdell couldn’t vote. Also add that
E. Russell was the negative vote.
Motion made by
Jennifer Cole, seconded by Frank Thornton:
“To approve
the selectboard meeting minutes with corrections for September 15th ”.
Vote: 3 in favor, Ellie Russell abstained (she was
absent from the Sept. 15th meeting).
No corrections were
noted.
·
Concerning meeting minutes
from September 18th by the selectboard, the move to come out of
executive session was made by Ellie Russell and seconded by Paul Arthaud.
·
Stephen Brooks asked
about the contract with fire codes and the HR personnel policy rewrite being
done by an outside consultant, has it been
shared with the select board? Is it
their intention to share it with the select board? Charlie said no, it has not been shared, but they do intend
to share it.
·
Stephen asked about
Plouffe Farm Road, what is the selectboard’s intention there? Selectboard does not know.
·
Stephen asked if
anyone has seen the firehouse bylaws?
No. Ellie will ask about it.
·
Stephen asked about
the status of the Barrows cash
flow? The trust has been funded
according to the public documents at the court house. Have you seen any documents?
No. Ellie will talk to them.
·
Stephen asked if
there was anything knew about fire truck specs? Ellie said there was a meeting scheduled with Mike O’Neill from
the Burlington Fire Department. They
are still in the looking stage.
·
Stephen asked about
the Burns planning committee. The old
timeline had the Burns planning committee work wrapped up in 2003, where is the
selectboard with that? Charles said it
is progressing and we’re about to send the final version of the process to the
Vermont Land Trust and the Preservation Trust for their approval. Dana Farley said they had a product that
they considered pretty final, but then they had an opportunity to spend some
time with a planner from England. They now
want to incorporate some of his ideas into the planning process. Then summer hit, and everyone was planning
vacations, etc. Now they’re ready to
work on the product again.
·
Stephen asked about Fournier
power line getting buried. This will be
added under “Adjustments to Agenda”.
·
Stephen asked about
the Park and Recs Department proposal to pull together all the management
issues. Charlie said we’re waiting for
Paul to give us a proposal.
·
Stephen asked about Thornton’s
Trace, was there any conclusion? It is
still ongoing. Ellie said when the
Hinsdale’s get their plans finalized, they will agree to alter the path so it
runs in a way that is satisfactory to the town and the Hinsdale’s.
·
Stephen asked about
the town land inventory discussion that occurred over a year ago. Ellie said some work was done on that, they
do intend to do it.
·
Concerning the town
web page, Stephen would like to drive home the point that it is helpful and useful;
perhaps it can get a higher level of attention when a new selectboard assistant
is hired.
·
Stephen asked about writing
a policy on the use of town buildings and properties. Ellie says it is still being worked on.
·
Stephen asked about
the use of Barber Hill for private parties.
Ellie said that’s part of the previous point.
·
Stephen asked about a
plan for maintenance and upgrade of gravel roads.
·
Stephen asked about
the Thompson’s Point long term strategy and investment study. Ellie said she would love a core of
volunteers to come and assist with all of the above items.
·
Chip Patullo and Debbie
Ramsdell from Champlain Co-Housing appeared to discuss a conflict between the
state’s wastewater regulations and the town’s regulations. They would like the town to move forward to
adopt the states’ regulations. They do
have some easements and they are working on a design for meeting the criteria
for a permit. These easements require
use of adjacent properties that they would rather not use. New state regulations would mean that they
wouldn’t need adjacent properties. There
are a number of difficulties of designing systems that are compliant with both
sets of regulations.
Charles
asked why the engineer designed it to rules that the town has not adopted yet. Chip did not have an answer to that
question, he did not know. Perhaps he
thought they were about to be adopted, maybe it was an oversight, he’s not
really sure. Charles said the
Co-Housing project was planned based on new state regulations, but the town has
not adopted those yet. The Planning
Commission put a condition on the permit that they approved a couple weeks ago
saying they can only build it to the rules that the old regulations would
allow. Chip said it is $2,000 to $5,000
per housing unit to build those additional fields, but under the new
regulations they would not need to build the fields.
Ellie
said there’s a fair amount of work that needs to be done before they make the
decision to adopt the new state regulations.
Chip said that the Regional Planning Commission assisted Shelburne with
a growth study, and Shelburne did adopt the regulations within the past year. So there may be some work that has been done
that pertains to Charlotte as well.
Charlie said this issue should make it onto the agenda within the next
few months – the Co-housing project is not the only group that is affected by
this issue.
Debbie
Ramsdell said they must be adopted by 2007, so let’s get moving on it. Stephen Brooks said the discussions have
been more of staying with the old ones until necessary, since the old
regulations are much stronger than the
new ones.
Holly
Callery understands that the town should take the time to look at the new
regulations. But, because it would be
an extraordinary hardship to the people who have put so much time and money
into the project already, she wonders if the select board could say that any
project that would preserve the major percentage of the land can go under the
new regulations. What if we said any
project that preserves 60 or 70 or 80% of the land, perhaps they can go under
the new regulations.
Jennifer
Cole said that Clark Hinsdale was talking about a similar idea – projects that
preserve land and that are consistent with the town plan. Perhaps there could be a waiver for this
project? Ellie said they have approval
for 17 lots, so it doesn’t stop the project, does it? It’s just the additional 23.
Chip said they would have to increase the prices significantly if they
were just going to build it as is with the existing capacity on site. That might squeeze some people out who are
currently members. Another point is
whether you want to do “zoning by zoning” or zoning by someone else’s
regulations.
Jennifer
asked about the difference in the way it would be constructed if they worked
with 17 units now, and adding 23 later.
Would the septic design be different?
Chip said yes. Under the old regulations,
they would need a much larger field.
This is requiring a larger field for a smaller number of units. What the state has studied over the last 25
years, when projects get to this size, it is not worst case scenario. Not all people are home all the time.
Allan
Jordan said his engineer feels in many cases it helps a developer, and in many
cases it hurts a developer. He would
like to know if the selectboard has had an unbiased presentation of the pros
and cons of how it would affect the building.
Charles said we will put this on the agenda and discuss it the first
meeting in October. Allan would like to
get an engineer who does not work in Charlotte to discuss the project.
Stephen
Brooks said many people would think that both of the discussions that occurred concerning
this issue were very broad and informed discussions.
Varney Farm Update
Charles
said there is a conference call in their future with the Demeter Fund (Davis
Charrington and Doug Horn) to talk about what to do with the Varney Farm. Tonight they would like to get some sort of
approval for ideas that they want to present to the Demeter Fund.
Dana
Farley said she’s not so sure that it matters how many members of the
selectboard participate in the conference call, as long as the person is
speaking with one voice for the board.
They would like to have the conference call done by the end of this
week.
Ellie
said we need to decide tonight where we’re going. Dana said they would like to see the 10 options or so narrowed
down to one proposal. Charlie said they
have come to a dead end with the density issue with trying to put many units on
the parcel. Peter Richardson asked if
that was an update, since it sounded like a conclusion.
Jennie
said there are lots of things that we haven’t looked into yet – there is a lot
more information to gather; is it really necessary to narrow in on one use or
group of uses, or can we say we’re looking at different uses and would like to
involve other parties. Ellie feels we
can narrow it somewhat – we need to begin to focus this. We can say we want to do this, but if it
doesn’t work we’ll try to do this or this.
Charlie
said we need to narrow this down to 1 or 2 ideas, to have this call and not
jeopardize what we’re doing. Dana said
the selectboard does not have enough information to determine whether a
proposal would be feasible at this point, but the Demeter Fund would like to
know what is desired and what steps would be taken as backup if the proposal is
not feasible. Also, the density issue
has not been completely decided yet.
Creating density with adjacent conserved land was not feasible. Charlie feels we need to put forward some
concrete plan that does not involve upping the density at this point, since density
is not the only issue – there’s traffic, etc.
He feels we need to put together a plan that is clearly feasible with what
we know about the property right now.
Peter
Richardson said Charlie wrote a letter in early August that identified affordable
housing as the primary use, with secondary uses listed also. What has happened since then? What has happened since our conversations
last week? Density is off the table, so
the doors are closed.
Charlie
said that the doors are not closed, but the Vermont Land Trust suggested
modifying the restriction of the development rights on the Demeter Park to pull
density off to apply straight to the Varney Farm. That approach can’t happen.
Peter asked to whom the response was made – there has been no evidence of
any interaction whatsoever. Charlie
said the town attorney has been trying to work this out and has been trying to
contact the Vermont Land Trust, but he has hit a dead end. Ellie said the impression we were getting
from our lawyers and the lawyer from the Land Trust is that it won’t work. Dana said it seemed to be too complicated
and the legal avenues did not appear to be there. Amending a conservation easement is an enormously complex thing. The door is not entirely closed – if the
town wants to think about high use there, we can talk about it again. But the talk has been heading toward a lower
scale usage there.
John
Owen said that every property that is going to come up is going to have
problems, with some taking years to solve.
If you decide to make a commitment to affordable housing, then you need
to begin solving problems. Francis
Thornton said we have a deadline to meet.
John said that’s true, but they are just asking for the intent of the
land usage at this point.
Charlie
talked about renting it “as is” for right now until a main use can be
determined. Ideally (without affordable
housing and solving the density issue) this would be renting it to the
non-profits. Allan Jordan asked what the
first backup is. Charlie said the board
has not discussed it, but perhaps selling the house, based on whatever
restrictions come with the property.
They did testing today; there is no appreciable septic and little water
on the property. Peter said it would be
helpful to have the benefit of those reports.
Charlie said it’s possible there are 6 bedrooms worth of septic
grandfathered on this property.
Jennie
contacted the state concerning the well.
The state could find no record about the well. Jennie called well drillers to see if they had any records – so
far, no luck. The well drillers had
information about testing the well – they talked about a flow test. It’s $300 to $500 and it would determine how
deep the well is and how many gallons per minute, but it’s not clear if it’s a
test that can be used for public buildings.
Also, how would the buildings best be maintained? Ellie said the organic folks are primarily
interested in the house and the land.
At this point, they are not interested in the barn.
Stephen
Brooks asked if the intention now is to write a proposal laying out continued
use of the property status quo, and laying out future use of the property. Who is going to write the proposal? Charlie said the selectboard will decide who
will write it. Stephen suggested
engaging someone who does this stuff all day – they can knock it out pretty
quick.
Dana
said she would like to apologize on behalf of the Demeter Fund – the town has
been trying to get information from the Demeter Fund (operating costs, etc.). She feels after a conference call, the
outline for a proposal will be much clearer to the town. The Demeter Fund may be willing to talk
about a subdivision of the house from the rest of the property. Since the density issue may not be
completely closed, this whole thing has prompted a board-wide discussion. If the density issue is going to change, it
will be something that will require a whole lot of work and needs to be
aggressively pursued.
Allan
Jordan asked about the priorities of the land use for the selectboard. If the selectboard puts affordable housing
at the bottom of the pile, then the Demeter Fund will put it at the bottom of
the pile – the whole thing may just fall apart. Charlie feels the board strongly promoted the affordable housing
concept at the beginning of the summer, and that’s why it was so hard to get
done what needed to get done.
Dana
says she does not know how much the Demeter Fund cares about affordable housing
in Charlotte, but they do care about what happens on this site. She feels that they got off-track with
affordable housing, and it’s not a definite “no” but a “yes” would take a lot
of work. Charles said the Land Trust
preserves a lot of land in the town, and he doesn’t feel that we should be jeopardizing
future projects by aggressively pursuing ideas that make them nervous. We need to be careful. Peter said if the board is serious about embracing
the need for affordable housing in this community, we need to do more than lip
service. Ellie said the board has gone
back and forth with the lawyers, and the reading the board got is that it just
won’t work here. Charles said this is
just not the right site for affordable housing. The selectboard can pursue other ideas for affordable housing,
but this site may just not be right.
The town meeting is where we can gather information as to whether the
town feels this is the right site for a busier activity than exists there now.
Jennie
called to get information from the Vermont Division of Historic Preservation on
projects that have been done in the state where sites have been preserved by
using them in some other way. She
thinks it would be good to be knowledgeable about the possibilities out
there. If there’s interest from people
willing to put in time and get a project moving along, this would be a good way
to go. One of the things we want to do
is maintain the view and the historic structures that are there. Maybe we need to do some looking at what has
been done in other areas.
Francis
Thornton said when Mr. Rockefeller bought the properties his purpose was to
maintain the view and the atmosphere of a farming community at the top of the
hill. With a large scale development of
housing, you are completely thwarting his ideas.
John
Quinney said there’s very few definitive answers to the questions that are
coming up. Is there any way of holding
the property and committing resources to get a rigorous investigation of the
issues to come up with some definitive answers? Francis said Charlie has come up with answers – there is not
sufficient septic or water. John asked
if there’s a way to get an answer to the density question (using adjacent
conservation land to provide density for this property). Charlie said it can’t be answered within the
next couple of weeks.
Allan
Jordan asked what’s going to happen in March when the board tells the town it
needs $17,000 to maintain the property for the year. Charles said the intent is to not to cost the town anything. Allan said maybe we ought to not buy the
property and tell them to keep the house.
Francis said at $17,000, preservation of the house is still a tremendous
bargain for the town. Allan said there
are lots of people in town whose taxes have gone up last year, they won’t be
happy.
Debbie
asked if one of the goals is to make money for the town. Charlie said he doesn’t believe the town
could do that unless it was a small amount to be used to maintain the park next
door. The town can’t be in a landlord
situation. It needs to state a public
purpose for acquiring this property.
Charlie
said we need to focus on this conference call.
The selectboard will attempt to be there en masse. Dana said they would need to schedule within
the next couple of days. They will aim
for Thursday or early Wednesday.
Peter
said he applauds the selectboards’ efforts to keep the process open. The difficulty that has been run into is
that a lot of what has happened has been invisible. It’s hearsay. It has been
a point of frustration – referring to comments made by someone else about
septic, etc. If there is going to be a real
commitment in this town to affordable housing, we need to do this better. Charles encouraged Peter to come to the
Burns property meetings – it has water and septic, centrally located, and there
are 55 acres. Peter said that it’s
important to try and make sure a public process is public. Ellie said communication is a tremendously
difficult thing to do.
Charlie
said the possible uses for the property are:
Keep running it the way it is as long as it takes to get the organic
people in for office space, else look into subdividing the land, or pursue the
affordable housing. Jennie said we have
to really think about how we can pay for maintaining those buildings. Francis said the biggest problem will be
maintaining the barn – it may be past the point of being able to do anything
with it. Charles said it needs a roof
and the foundation worked on if you are going to make it a public building, but
for farming purposes just the roof needs to be fixed.
John
Hammer said when you do a case study you always put down the pros and cons and
balance them out. He has never heard
any pros or cons to the argument of letting the Demeter Fund sell it. After 3 months of putting a lot of energy
into this problem, we’ve come up with a lot of negatives. Maybe we want to reconsider this - let the Demeter
Fund keep it, otherwise lets figure out the positives of keeping the property.
Ellie
said the organic farming option is a positive and it fits the goals that we
have set out for that property. It
preserves the view and the building, puts it to effective use, brings in enough
income to pay expenses and the land is used for agriculture. There are a lot of pluses there and not many
negatives. It supports the town plan;
the group is excited about doing it.
Charles said the negative that has been brought up is that if there’s a
subsidized farmer in there, it’s competing with local farmers. Ellie feels we don’t necessarily have to
subsidize the farmer, it’s their program – it is part of what they do. She feels that may be a weak argument. We should put some protection in there in
case it fails. Francis feels it makes
sense to bank the land. As the town
grows, there will be more and more uses for that property. The town hall is not big enough to include
office space for Parks and Recreation, for example.
Charles
said they would need 24 hours to warn a meeting. Stephen suggested - if hiring someone to draft the proposal, they
should be in on the conference call and they should be called tomorrow. Charlie feels the selectboard can draft the
proposal, and run it by Dana. Dana said
that after the selectboard has talked to Doug Horn, everything will be much
clearer. There are so many people
involved that it’s been a frustrating process.
Decision to Hire Selectboard Assistant
Motion
made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To go into executive session to
discuss the hiring of a selectboard assistant”.
Vote: all in favor.
Motion
made by Eleanor Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To come out of executive session”.
Vote: all in favor.
Motion
made by Francis Thornton, seconded by Ellie Russell:
“Move to hire Dean Bloch in a
combined position as the town planner and the assistant to the selectboard in a
full time position at the salary of $38,480 (full-time position) subject to
review by the town attorney”.
Vote: all in favor.
Stephen asked about
the number of applicants – there were 7.
Stephen asked if the salary was doubled from the 20 hour job. Charlie said no, it’s an increase to $18.50
an hour instead of $17.09. He will be
in both the town planner and the selectboard assistant offices. Ellie said there is a cost involved – he is
getting more pay, and full-time benefits.
He will need to give 3 weeks notice in Georgia - he is the town planner
there.
Authorize bills and warrants
Signed
bills and warrants as appropriate.
Adjournment
Next
meeting: Monday, October 6th
at 7 PM.
Motion
made by Ellie Russell, seconded by Jennifer Cole:
“To adjourn the selectboard
meeting”.
Vote: all in favor. Meeting adjourned at 9:45 PM.
Minutes respectfully submitted by Jocelyn Bolick.